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Stephen A. Smith sat down with former ESPN colleagues Jemele Hill and Cari Champion for a candid conversation about his career, his treatment of Black women and his increasingly political platform.
The Wednesday (September 2) episode of Flagrant and Funny with Cari Champion and Jemele Hill came amid criticism Smith faced last month after the National Association of Black Journalists gave him its “Thumbs Down” award, citing what it called a “recurring public pattern of disparaging commentary directed at prominent Black women across politics, sports, and media.”
At the start of the conversation, Champion emphasized that she and Hill wanted to be honest about their disagreements while giving Smith the opportunity to share his perspective.
Here are seven moments when Hill and Champion put Smith on the spot:
1. Hill and Champion shut down the idea that they're jealous of him
Before getting into their conversation, the pair made one thing clear: They were not bitter about Smith’s success. Champion specifically pushed back on Smith’s past suggestion that some of his critics are jealous of what he has accomplished in sports media.
“You deserve every bit of your wonder,” Hill told him, before both women emphasized that they were not jealous of his success.
They also rejected the idea that their criticism was part of an effort to bring him down, with Hill saying there was “no conspiracy theory to take you down.”
Smith clarified that when he has previously suggested that people are jealous of him, he was referring to certain male colleagues, not Hill and Champion. He also acknowledged that the women have supported him publicly over the years.
2. Hill called out what she saw as a double standard
Hill brought up her 2017 ESPN suspension after she called Donald Trump a white supremacist on social media.
She reminded Smith that he often tells people to call him directly before speaking about him publicly, but said he did not give her that same courtesy when he publicly discussed the situation in a Washington Post interview without first reaching out to her.
She noted that conservative commentator Will Cain at least emailed her to let her know he was speaking with the paper.
“You always say, ‘Call me before you speak about me,’” Hill told Smith. “But when ESPN suspended me ... you never gave me that courtesy.”
3. Champion challenged Smith's version of how she got to ESPN
Smith and Champion also disagreed over his role in her ESPN career.
While discussing Champion’s time moderating First Take, Smith claimed he played a role in helping her get the opportunity and said Skip Bayless did not want to hire her.
“Neither did you,” Champion shot back.
Smith then said Champion had wanted to work on SportsCenter and wanted to return to ESPN. Champion immediately disputed that, telling him, “That is not true, Stephen A. I know you lying.”
4. Hill challenged Stephen A. over how he talked about Joy Reid
NABJ’s criticism of Smith included his public dispute with journalist Joy Reid, a close friend of Hill and Champion. Smith had previously argued that Reid’s departure from MSNBC was driven by declining ratings, rather than race, after the network canceled The ReidOut in 2025.
“Joy Reid is a big friend of ours. That's our girl,” Hill said. “I just notice, when you're talking about other folks, you apply nuance, but with her you didn't. You went straight to her ratings. And guess what, by the way, it happens every presidential election, if you're representing a certain side.”
Hill argued that Reid’s ratings should be viewed in the context of broader post-election declines in political programming, including at MSNBC, rather than as evidence that Reid’s show was uniquely struggling.
Smith has maintained that his criticism of Reid was about the business realities of television, not race or gender.
5. Champion asked whether he'd bring the same energy he brings LeBron James to Tom Brady
The conversation eventually moved to Smith’s highly publicized conflict with LeBron James, including their March 2025 courtside confrontation over Smith’s commentary about James’ son, Bronny.
Smith argued that Bronny was not ready for the NBA and should have spent time developing in the G League, comments that eventually led to the courtside confrontation. Champion questioned why Smith’s disagreements with LeBron and other Black athletes can become so intense and asked whether he would bring the same energy to Tom Brady if he had a similar dispute with the NFL legend.
“If I had the beef with Tom Brady, you saying you would go at Tom Brady the same way, right?” Champion asked.
Smith defended his criticism and pointed to his history of challenging people across racial lines.
6. Hill questioned his response to Donald Trump
Hill pointed to President Donald Trump’s previous criticism of Smith.
She noted that Trump had called Smith a “low IQ individual” and questioned why Smith did not respond to Trump with the same intensity he has displayed toward Hill and other Black people.
Smith rejected the idea that he was simply going easy on Trump. He said his approach was strategic, arguing that he wants opportunities to directly engage with the president and that going “nuclear” could undermine that goal.
7. Hill questioned some of the people Smith chooses to platform
Hill said she doesn't take Smith's political disagreements personally, but questioned some of the people he chooses to platform, including Fox News host Sean Hannity and conservative commentator Ben Shapiro.
“I saw you do — I watched your conversation with Ben Shapiro, man. And I’m going to just say, f**k Ben Shapiro,” Hill said, pointing to Shapiro's past comments about Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old Black teenager who was fatally shot in Florida in 2012.
For Hill, the issue was not simply that Shapiro holds conservative political views that differ from her own. She told Smith that she sometimes sees him in spaces with people whose past comments or positions, in her view, go beyond political disagreement and call into question the humanity of Black people.
“I sometimes see you in the company of [people] who dismiss our humanity,” Hill told Smith.
Hill made clear that she was not asking Smith to agree with her politically, but was challenging him over who he chooses to elevate and engage with given his own position as a prominent Black media figure.
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